Here
are the last two e-mails that I sent out. Have a wonderful day!
Hi
everyone!
Our
organizer meeting went swiftly, and there are two small updates pursuant to it.
As
we pursue 501c3 status, we're going to need to collect a small amount of money
- $275 dollars according to this. As our treasury
currently has $70, we'll need to ask for some donations; Kia has put it into my
head that maybe we could do some sort of fun fund raiser. My idea was
immediately a 5k race in the blazing heat of summer: The Run to Heck.
Obviously, this is not a practical solution. Additionally, we will eventually
need to collect some more money for the meetup.com site, but that's quite a few
months away.
Also,
a few people had mentioned making some amendments to the bylaws once they were
created. Now that we have an official group of organizers and an official set
of bylaws, we have the means to do this and welcome any and all suggestions,
especially if they are about Ann and I getting a solid gold jet.
All
righty, here are notes from today's discussion. I'll be posting everything,
including this e-mail, on the website which can be found here: Click
me for a good pretty-okay time.
Secular
Sunday
May 19, 2019
Attendees:
|
· Ann
Brady
|
· MJ
Loflin
|
· Sean
Bienert
|
|
· Molly
|
· Joe
Lantz
|
· Michael
|
|
· Brian
|
· John
|
· Chris
|
|
· Pearl
|
· Bob
|
· Jason
|
|
· Charlene
|
· Sheryl
|
· Josh
|
|
· Tara
|
· Aaron
|
· Ronnie
|
Announcements:
Bob is back to his
beautiful, colorful shirts!
John’s brother’s chemo has
stopped the growth of the cancer. Chris’s mom was having some cognitive
problems until lion’s mane mushrooms. Coincident or not, she has improved.
Charlene went to a
baseball game for the first time in her life. She had a great time! This
precipitated a round of dad jokes after the bat dog was mentioned.
Book club this Saturday –
The Year of Living Biblically 5 – 6:30 at Earth Fare in the meeting room. Josh
pointed out that the author is a nut (read Enc. Brit from first to last to
become the smartest man in the world).
Towel Day bar crawl (also
May 25th), starting at the Bearded Goat at 2 pm. Check the meetup.com discussion
on that event page for updates as to our location as the day progresses.
Discussion Notes:
Democracy – choice and structure. Looking at how democracy currently functions (or doesn’t) in the US. Eventually all democracies will lead to oligarchies (Plato’s Republic?) Sheryl points out that Plato and Socrates were NOT pro-democracy (she teaches the philosophy of education). The key thing is that each individual has an inherent nature that leads them to do one thing and one thing only all their lives.
Josh – you want a dictator, but a benevolent one.
Sheryl – the philosopher king. The idea of everyone doing what they are meant to do, everyone will be happy.
Josh – every topic can be reduced to free will (bingo!) Free will is the operating system of everything.
Aaron – free will encompasses everything we do.
Sean – in the case of
religion, free will is the most important tenet. We have a choice or otherwise
religion is meaningless.
Josh – religions are all metaphors about how we figure things out – whether we have free will, or don’t.
Sheryl – to some degree we are independent individuals and we have choices. As long as we are here, what are we going to do with our lives?
Josh – we don’t have ultimate control, but we have some control. When we mess up is when we attribute our decisions to a higher power. Some of us are predisposed to accept or reject certain things.
Josh – religions are all metaphors about how we figure things out – whether we have free will, or don’t.
Sheryl – to some degree we are independent individuals and we have choices. As long as we are here, what are we going to do with our lives?
Josh – we don’t have ultimate control, but we have some control. When we mess up is when we attribute our decisions to a higher power. Some of us are predisposed to accept or reject certain things.
Aaron – Sam Harris video
on free will. There will be an answer about the free will question soon.
Molly – the dialogue around love is anti-freewill. (Sean has no free will about love because Kia will kill him if he leaves her.)
Josh – the idea of fear in free will is very important. We are constrained by our fear of consequences.
Josh – Sam Harris is brilliant, but he thinks he’s wrong. He has holes in his argument that he isn’t willing to recognize. He fills them with things he does know and ignores the stuff he doesn’t know. He has an almost religious zeal about rejecting other people’s ideas about free will.
Molly – the dialogue around love is anti-freewill. (Sean has no free will about love because Kia will kill him if he leaves her.)
Josh – the idea of fear in free will is very important. We are constrained by our fear of consequences.
Josh – Sam Harris is brilliant, but he thinks he’s wrong. He has holes in his argument that he isn’t willing to recognize. He fills them with things he does know and ignores the stuff he doesn’t know. He has an almost religious zeal about rejecting other people’s ideas about free will.
Sean – looking at John’s idea
that it doesn’t really change anything whether we have free will or not. It can
help us reform criminal justice and other things. Back to democracy – the
problem with it is that we are yoking our free will with the free will of
others.
Abortion – it’s almost as if they want to control women.
Josh – the people who are consistent are the most restrictive – no exceptions for anything.
Lyn – the catholic church is consistent – they oppose the death penalty too.
The issue is complex.
Our current situation is orchestrated by the “old guard” who see their influence dying out. (Sheryl)
If you divide the country into thirds, the top third is doing very well.
Jason – we have a chance to change things but the younger people are apathetic.
Michael – so many parts of a liberal arts education are not easily seen as pertinent.
Sheryl – all parts of education are vital.
Ann – students focus on what they have to do to get a job because they graduate with crushing debt.
Josh – why does government profit from education without funding it?
Hyper-capitalism, corporatization of education and marketplace mentality all feed into the problem because we expect kids to know at the end of high school what they are going to do.
Military same – we have basically private militaries.
Josh was reading an article on Israelis living in Portugal – it is very corporatized in Israel. Portugal is a much more relaxed in Portugal so it is very pleasant to live there. It is really is expensive to live here (in the US), but to get out of it, you have to live in a backwater like Portugal. We need to define success differently.
As we look at a much more automated society, we are going to have to look at success differently.
Progressives using their dollar to influence policy is a mixed bag. We are not in large numbers influencing using our spending.
The Walmart model is to find the bare minimum they have to do to get the organic or non-gmo label. It corrupts the thing we are trying to accomplish.
Josh - The other essential question is when we look at the global problems it seems that the intricacy of how much the corporate take over has been, it doesn’t seem like there’s any place to get a toehold to change. The system seems to be unbreakable. Are the future children going to have any kind of chance to have a decent future?
Sheryl – being true to our beliefs is how we change things. Live authentically. Do it in face-to-face conversations. We can each choose to do these things. People are dying for this personal communications.
Aaron – a lot of his college classes are pretty good for this kind of thing. Debates, writing, researching all help.
Lyn – we are all buying into the isolation. There are many ways we can get the human interaction.
Sheryl – we breed conformity through education.
Sean – wrap-up. Topic for next time – alienation.
Hiya.
Abortion – it’s almost as if they want to control women.
Josh – the people who are consistent are the most restrictive – no exceptions for anything.
Lyn – the catholic church is consistent – they oppose the death penalty too.
The issue is complex.
Our current situation is orchestrated by the “old guard” who see their influence dying out. (Sheryl)
If you divide the country into thirds, the top third is doing very well.
Jason – we have a chance to change things but the younger people are apathetic.
Michael – so many parts of a liberal arts education are not easily seen as pertinent.
Sheryl – all parts of education are vital.
Ann – students focus on what they have to do to get a job because they graduate with crushing debt.
Josh – why does government profit from education without funding it?
Hyper-capitalism, corporatization of education and marketplace mentality all feed into the problem because we expect kids to know at the end of high school what they are going to do.
Military same – we have basically private militaries.
Josh was reading an article on Israelis living in Portugal – it is very corporatized in Israel. Portugal is a much more relaxed in Portugal so it is very pleasant to live there. It is really is expensive to live here (in the US), but to get out of it, you have to live in a backwater like Portugal. We need to define success differently.
As we look at a much more automated society, we are going to have to look at success differently.
Progressives using their dollar to influence policy is a mixed bag. We are not in large numbers influencing using our spending.
The Walmart model is to find the bare minimum they have to do to get the organic or non-gmo label. It corrupts the thing we are trying to accomplish.
Josh - The other essential question is when we look at the global problems it seems that the intricacy of how much the corporate take over has been, it doesn’t seem like there’s any place to get a toehold to change. The system seems to be unbreakable. Are the future children going to have any kind of chance to have a decent future?
Sheryl – being true to our beliefs is how we change things. Live authentically. Do it in face-to-face conversations. We can each choose to do these things. People are dying for this personal communications.
Aaron – a lot of his college classes are pretty good for this kind of thing. Debates, writing, researching all help.
Lyn – we are all buying into the isolation. There are many ways we can get the human interaction.
Sheryl – we breed conformity through education.
Sean – wrap-up. Topic for next time – alienation.
Hiya.
Apologies
for putting these out in such a delinquent fashion : updates at the top, two
Sundays worth of notes at the bottom.
1)
There will be an organizer meeting after tomorrow's Secular Sunday.
2)
Treasury report is that we have $40. We will need to discuss dues and rewards
for people who give more at the next organizer meeting (see below), so as to be
fair and transparent. To this point, we have operated on donations to keep the
Meetup.com website running, and the most recent transaction + another donation
makes our account record look like this: $110 (previous donation funds) - $90
(meetup fees) = $20 + $20 donation = $40 current balance.
3)
There was a movie night on Saturday, May 11th. Previous
movie here, and there were suggestions made for this movie and/or
perhaps some of these clips at the next film night. There was
also talk of a documentary about a Mormon polygamist, but unfortunately, Google
searching that revealed... *ahem* several possibilities.
4)
We have a new project at the IRC!!! They need some shelving for White Flag
nights when the building has to house many times its normal capacity. We're
looking into materials and numbers. There will be more updates about this soon,
but my big question to everyone is this: What day/time would work well for you
to help with the assembly of the shelves (if you're interested, obviously.)
I'll run it by the group tomorrow as well.
5)
It was suggested that, as a topic, we could talk about the difference between
Godless and God-free.
6)
We will be having TWO events - count 'em, TWO - on the 25th
a)
Book club will be meeting at 5-630 in the community room at Earth Fare. There's a website for the book!!!
b)
Towel Day bar crawl for drinking skeptically - we're starting at 2 at Bearded
Goat. Dress comfortably - 4.2 k (2.6 miles) around downtown. It's going to be
hot. We'll try to wait out the hottest parts of the day in good old air
conditioned bars.
7)
Noats! (May 12th)
Last
Sunday, we started off talking about Baptism, Vacation Bible School and early
religious brainwashing. We had some amusing stories that ranged from
gross and ill conceived baptisms in shallow or snake infested water. We talked
briefly about the various schisms in Christianity, and how they've progressed -
from Eco's epic to Gad
Saad (LOVE the name)'s ideas about religious evolution. Santeria is
the Australia of religious evolution. We somehow transitioned to how Jesus is
pretty much chopped liver as far as to whom the Catholics pray. (hint: they
pray to saints way more.)
We
talked a bit about Georgia's Abortion bill and its function as Supreme court
bait to try to overturn Roe v. Wade. Of course, we went around about the simple
fact that the same people who are pushing the laws don't care about babies at
all, and their positions on children post-birth make this obvious. We talked
about the responsibility of men in the lives of children, including things like
child support, etc. People shared experiences dealing with abortions or the
potential for them - I'm not going to say too much more about that in an e-mail
except for the comment that someone made: I'm like a microwave: hot, and if you
put a baby inside me, I'll kill it. We talked about a lot of aspects of
abortion - its disproportionate effect on those of lower income, the fact that
we need a revolution in sex education, how genuine the
"righteous" indignation of certain parties and whether or not they
should open their fu- *ahem* open their mouths.
Briefly,
at the end of the meeting, we talked about whether or not Democracy is
sustainable. This was offered as potential subject for next time. So, there it
is: tomorrow, we can discuss Godless vs God-free or the limits of democracy
when it has the potential to become a kleptocracy.
Meeting
attendance for May 12th was: Ronnie, Lyn, Molly, Joe, Bob, John, Geoff,
Michael, James, Gina, Sean, and anyone I forgot <3
8)
Here are the notes from the 5th, courtesy of the wonderful and fantastic Ann
Brady (who takes better notes than me.)
Secular Sunday 5/5/2019
Attendees
|
Pam
|
Brian
|
Kathryn
|
Bob
|
Aaron
|
|
Tina
|
Derek
|
John
|
James
|
Joe
|
|
Pearl
|
Lyn
|
Sean
|
AC
|
Ann
|
Announcements
· Bob
wore a very cool belt in lieu of his normally very colorful shirt!
· Teachers
March, May 1, 2019. Sean and Ann attended. Lower turn out than last year.
Legislators were conspicuous by their absence. Usual nuts were there including
Bible Guy who called all the women marchers witches and unruly women.
· Video
night is 5/11. See the Meetup site for more details.
· On
5/19 Doodad Farm is holding a benefit concert for Harmony Music School. The
event is from 2:30 – 8:30 at Doodad Farm, 4701 Land Road, Greensboro, NC 27406.
It will celebrate art, music and history of women. They are suggesting a
donation of $15 - $20 per adult, but no one will be turned away. Dogs welcome.
Food trucks will be on site. All entertainers will be women and the food trucks
are women owned. Coolers and lawn chairs are welcome.
· International
Geek Day (Towel Day) beer crawl is 5/25. The distance has been reduced from 4.2
miles to 4.2 k after feedback from those of us who prefer to not die. It
starts at 2pm at Natty Greens on Elm Street.
· John,
our IRC contact person, says that the IRC needs shelving built for homeless
people to use when the weather is really bad and they must stay indoors at the
IRC for longer periods of time. We have a little money in the treasury, but
will need to do more planning. This is a great community service opportunity!
· Book
Club is also scheduled for 5/25. The book this month is The Year of
Living Biblically
· Aaron
invites anyone interested to join him any Sunday evening for bowling at
Countryside Lanes.
Topics
Faith and anxiety (these kind of
merged at some points in the discussion, but most of the discussion was about
faith)
Faith – the idea of faith. Faith
is not based on observation. But at some point you do have to believe
that someone has observed it (science). Even for the stuff we
don’t know, there are explanations that don’t necessarily include God.
- Occam’s
Razor
- Hanlon’s
Razor
- Shit
happens
Where do morals come from in the
absence of God?
- Genetics
(Dawkins) – family (shared genetic material), society (also shared genetic
material)
Science
and scientists are funded by non-ethical corporations. At least their
primary focus is not ethics, but profit. Corporations share reward and dilute
guilt.
Road
to hell… Humanity is its own tragic hero. Drive to keep our genetics going is
the cause of both altruism and greed. Morality is a side-effect of genetics.
Intelligent
people are not reproducing. Is this leading to a dumbing-down of humanity?
In
the battle of faith vs science, religion will never win for scientific
questions.
Medicine
(natural medicine) used by early men was based on observation.
Religion
accepts science when it doesn’t conflict with belief.
Stupid
design YouTube videos – Neil deGrasse Tyson
What if we described humans in
monster terms? What would that look like?
THANK YOU ALL,
Much love,
The convention
started off on Thursday 4/18 with fundraisers and ice breakers. Between the Pub
Quiz and Cards Against Humanity game, I met many people and laughed a lot. 
On Friday, Dr. Hector
Garcia shared some information from his book Alpha God comparing
animals with features meant to make them look larger than they really are like
male lions’ manes 
or orangutans’ fatty
cheeks versus those of religious organizations with headdresses or beards. 
The connection is
between the violence of the animals and the unquestionable dominance of the
head of the church/temple/mosque. Whoever is head of the community is dominant,
powerful and not to be questioned.